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PICTOU — A wind-turbine bylaw under consideration by Pictou County council may include some of the province’s most restrictive conditions.
If the bylaw passes a public hearing and final readings next month, large wind turbines capable of supplying electricity to the power grid will have to be placed at least 600 metres from homes.
That’s the farthest distance legislated so far in Nova Scotia, said Pictou County Warden Allister MacDonald, adding that other jurisdictions call for a 500-metre setback.
The land-use bylaw, which applies to no other land use in Pictou County than wind turbines, calls for the structures to be at least 300 metres from public roads. Both utility and domestic turbines must be at least their own height from property lines in case they topple.
"We’ve listened to what the people had to say," Mr. MacDonald said.
After council was approached by a development company last year, councillors met with developers, consultants and concerned residents to draft a bylaw and changed it seven times before its first reading this week.
"Council has stated very clearly it’s in favour of wind energy," Mr. MacDonald said. "At the same time we have to protect the interests of the residents and the developers."
The setback does not apply to residences on the same lot as wind turbines, to future homes built less than 600 metres from an already existing wind turbine or to later purchasers of those homes. The property line setback will be waived if adjacent properties are leased for a long term to the wind-turbine owner.
The bylaw does not restrict the number of turbines on a property as long as the setback rules are followed, but it does regulate the expansion of turbines existing before the bylaw’s introduction.
There are now three utility turbines in Pictou County — two on Fitzpatrick Mountain and one in Marshville — with more in the planning stages for other areas of the county.
My comment
Cumberland County has less than half (46%) the population density of Pictou County, yet has passed a land use bylaw amendment for wind turbines to be no less than 500m from a residence. That is from a residence - not from a property line.
How can Pictou County manage to write a bylaw that keeps turbines 600m from a residence, keeps them back from roads and property lines, but Cumberland County cannot? Pictou has actually paid attention to suggestions from its residents.
There are large wind farm developments being suggested for Pictou County. Shearwind's owner tells me that his Glendhu project is a minimum 4km from a residence.
Why can't projects destined for Cumberland County keep back at least as far?
44 comments:
Can someone explain why this developer can't move this collection of "wind turbines" further away or to another location along the coast that is not as close to as many residences as this one?
Wow you really know how to read between the lines Lisa. Where does it say in this article or even in the legislation the 600m setback applies to property lines. It is for properties that already exist. This legisltation also does not deal with setbacks relative to future development of properties if they decide to move closer to the wind farm. Also in the legislation the developer can actually lease the property that currently exists within the 600m setback and the setback does not apply to property that is on the lot where the wind farm will be built. You have to stop this one sided review of public information on this matter. All your precious legislation does, that you are touting as being so much more progressive than your own municipalities, is give 100m. That's it nopthing more and nothing less. Woop di doo da a whole 100m WOW!
The only thing we have to watch for now is a municipal pissing match where each municipality tries to out do the other by increasing their own setback, which would be a dream for you, but not a future reality.
Several posters have provided links to sites showing the facts pertaining to the effects of other w/farms on the surrounding land and people. The vast majority of this information shows and tells a not too encouraging story relating to these installations.
Why doesn't someone post a link or two where they are a resounding success both in regards to public relations and from a productivity standpoint? Surely there must be some neighbours living in close proximity who would welcome some more of them.
Anonymous #1 - because all the real "good" sites are spoken for already in this highly competitive business.
Anonymous #2 - If you read again what I wrote, I said the setbacks are further (not 600m) from property lines. They have to be the height of the turbine. In Cumb Co there is 0m setback.
500m x 20% = 600m
20% is a significant change. It's still not enough, but it is still significant.
If the County Councils want to compete with each other to create better and better land use bylaws, then so be it!!
However, you make a rebuttal to weaker points, but fail to address the more significant ones: eg how come wind developers in Pictou Co. can keep back as far as 4km from residences in a County with twice the population density of Cumb. Co. but developers here try to tell us that even a 1km setback would kill wind development in the County. It might kill the Pugwash project, but it certainly would not kill all development.
Anonymous #3 - by definition, you are not going to find a 100% happy community that is living close to a wind farm. Where they are most successful is out in the wilderness or wide open farmland where there are no people to be bothered.
By supporting Glendhu the way you are Lisa shows how biased and misinformed you really are. You obviously don't truly understand what the numbers should look like for a successful wind farm. Glendhu won't win and if it does than the fix is in on NSPI wanting this whole RFP process to truly fall through the floor.
Also an answer to the posting prior to your last one Lisa. You should tell this anonymous why there is no objective information on this blog. The reason being is because it is one sided and truly biased. There is plenty of info out there that shows people being happy with wind farms, but you will never see that here in Lisa's world.
Hey Lisa there is only mention of one project that has a 4Km distance between it and nearby communities in Pictou. Did you happen to read that there are already 3 turbines up in the area! They are not 4 Km's away from residences. Quit trying to manipulate the argument with misleading information. Your statemtn that one project that is going to be 4Km away should be a staple for the whole industry is unfounded. Plus you don't know anything about this project other than what the developer wants you to hear. Get a grip!
I am still waiting for Anne Murray to do a benefit concert to save our shore. That interview she gave to the Oxford Journal didn't resonate, nor did it help not having her in the photo.
Anne Murray won't even see this wind farm from her place. She too has been mislead and should stick to what she is good at!
Did anyone watch The Daily Show with John Stewart a couple of nights ago. Great stuff. Apparently a bunch of spoiled rich kids on Nantucket Island have decided that an offshore wind farm will spoil their view. And it's 5 miles away! They even have a rent a celebrity, Ted Kennedy, reading an anti wind script before Congress. Lets face it folks; anti wind power is just a no wind nowhere movement.
The only excuse these light air luddites can come up with is property values. As if the Kennedys need to worry about forclosure on the touch football feld.
Moving on. Great picture of the windless warriers in the Oxford Journal: but where"s Waldo. Can it really be true ? Anne will not allow her photo with these lovely ladies. Her public relations people must have run the danger flag up the old Fox Harbour flag pole. Cooler heads may be prevailing.
By the way. Wheres the contact info for anonyous who thinks I've been bought and sold by the wind developers. Come on play fair.
John McManus
My, my! Must have touched a nerve!
A very tender nerve.
I'm afraid you have missed my point. A fiction that only those who are potential leaseholders or are investors support wind development is common throughout this blog. Anonymous by saying comments positive towards wind power obviously indicate that I stand to gain financially from the Irishtown Road wind farm can be easily answered. I do not.
Suspecing that some may not believe this, after all anyone can sign my name on this blog, I offered to contact Ms. or Mr. Anonymous. They can come to my house and ask whatever they want. Anyone with a computer could also find me using Canada 411.
So far no contact. A meeting would deprive anonymous of the deceit that only those ion a positin to profit support wind power. This is fairly similar to the reluctance to take a free bus trp to Pubnico. After all, it could be difficult to argue the negative after seeing the real thing.
The offer still stands. Come and talk to me, have a beer, see if I'm who I say I am.
Still signing:
John McManus
Hi John,
It would it appear it is you who has missed the point. We have said from day one that we support wind power.
None of us stands to gain from this particular project, but we continue to support wind power. We just do not support a project located in an irresponsible location such as Gulf Shore/Pugwash where this project would be surrounded on three sides by populated areas.
If this project were moved to an isolated area, it would have our support. If it were moved to a new, populated area, we would not.
It does interest me though, that this blog receives so much of your attention.
If you had no direct interest in or contact with AWPC, then how come you know about a planned free trip to Pubnico but yet also describe it as being met with "reluctance"?
What you don't know, or weren't told, was that there were people who were interested, but whatever reason (low numbers, conflicting schedules etc) the trip has never come off - yet. Others have made their own way down and more plan to do so. Meanwhile we have visited other, very similar projects (eg Elmira PEI), and reported on some of them.
Lisa you are misguided once again to think that your opposition does not belive that you do support wind power. You do not and cannot support this industry with the stance that you are taking. It is inevitable that wind farms will be developed in close proximity to a few residences. In its nature and size there will always be one or two families that are affected. As opposed to trying to shut down this industry in NS with a moratorium why don't you instead advocate for a reciprocal relationship between the developer and the property owner that are directly affected. Society has decided that we are going to aim to generate as much as 20% of our energy from wind, so why don't you direct your energy to those that WILL be impacted, so that they can benefit in some way, if your claims are correct as opposed to advocating moratoriums and municipal bylaw reviews. But then again wouldn't it be something if this wind farm wins in the bid and is built and everyone looks around and says hey this isn't so bad afterall. "I can live with this". Where will your reputation be then Lisa? It will remain as credible as this blog, so perhaps you should rethink your approach as decision time is only a few months away!
I'm afraid that you have, once again, missed the point. At no time has anyone said that you are making money from opposing windpower. All I am saying is that I have no financial stake in wind development. It is,however a good politial move to obfuscaate my position.
The previous post is good on the subject of opposing wind power comletely. Writing the premier, asking for a moratorium on wind projects just as they are starting, is of cource, merely an attempt to kill wind energy in Nova Scotia completely.
It is obvious that you do not believe me when I say I have no financial stake in the Irishtown wind project. Let me reasure you : I don't. I have time to read along with this blog, some electronic clipping services,my ebay account, the Toronto Star and other sites I frequent. I am interested in alternate energy because I think it is a civic duty of everyone to work for a sensible energy future. To do any less fails our future generations.
Lisa; I know about the Pubnico bus trip because I attended a meeting in a Church Hall in Pugwash: I saw you there. A woman from the agency dealing with the environmental assessment asked me if I'd like to attend. She later phoned to say that the trip was being postponed because a lot of people were backing out.
Ya see I had exactly the same information you did. Does this mean that you are being financially supported by the wind industry?
Same offer: call me talk.
John McManus
John, call your conscience, it is wanting to have a good chat. It is unconscienable the way a few members of this community, all large area land owners, ruin, raze, poison and deplete their resources for cash. Neighbourhoods, ecosystems, planet be damned. Think North Nova Forestry Co-op, spawn of the pulpwood industry. Yeah, that guy who stood at the meeting quoting scripture for god's sake, the heavenly wind turbine sent down from above to save us from our planet sucking greedy selfish ways. Yeah, right. Most of those cheering and applauding were land owners eager to get their hands on some wind turbine cash, the very same land owners who played deaf, dumb and blind to the risks and harms clearcutting posed. Just as you do here, John.
To label the wind industry as being one of avarice is perhaps the most misguided and ironic statement that I have ever heard. The last posting is almost labelling the wind power industry as being the same as the greedy resource based companies of yesterday and today. Are you saying that wind power is like mining, forestry and fossil fuel oriented companies. Because if you are than perhaps you should answer the call from your own conscience. It is on your part unconscionable to place the wind industry in such a category. It is of course a business where profit is to be made, but not as much as some of the rich oil, mining and logging barons of the past and present have hoarded. I think statements like the one above is what is taking away from the credibility of this blog. Keep it up, because it is only helping AWPC!
There is one difference between harvesting pulpwood through clear cutting and harvesting the wind. Trees will grow back , but over a period of 20, 50 or a hundred years depending on use. The wind is different. Use it now to generate electricity and is is still there; infinately renewable. It is there a second later, a minute later, a day later etc. Mining and oil and gas extraction also deplete the resourse base until each site is played out and abandoned. This is impossible with wind. There is a reason renewable resouces are called renewable.
I hope that others were listening to CBC PEI this morning. There are those, a cottage owner spoke, who want to halt the endless cyle of land purchase, subdivision and high density cottge building. They think that such overdevelopment damages the scenic beauty of the oceanfront and threatens the local environment.
The huge profits of a wind farm have been discussed at length. Lets have a dose of reality. Its going to take $50 million which will have to be borrowed. Although the lifespan is 20 years, It will take a genius to get a loan over that term. And check out the interest. At 6% , I get $3 million a year; plus princple plus maintenance plus administration. Now the income, NS Power doesn't want anyone else generating, the government is forcing them to do it, so they are going to lowball: maybe 8- 8 1/2 cents a killawatt hour. The rent is not going to be paid easily. Do the math.
This speaks to Rae's question about local ownership. It is difficult because the numbers are so big. So far only big generators are cost effective due to economies of scale and the fact that power varies to the square of teh diameter of the rotor. You need a big propeller.
To make any sense, a co-op would need 3-400 households. The Gulf Shore does not have that kind of poulation. The fact that such a high proportion of landowners are not residents would also be problematic. How do you apportion fair investment and dividend shares when some people are full time residents, some are there for 2 months, some 4 months etc. Another problem is varying income and age levels. Potential lenders could be shy about accepting a wide level of diversity. For good or evil, a grid hookup is necessary, involvement with NS Power is necessary and so far single ownership is neessary. Remenber NS Power was created because noone was willing to service rural people. A public utility was the only answer to provide everyone with power. A publicly owned utility is , in fact, a large coop. Too bad our politicians sold it.
John McManus
As icky as it is being lumped in with clear cutters, the truth is trees can't grow back, the industry won't permit it. Mother Nature is under attack. They spray poison from the skies, taking aim at all the hardwoods that dare compete with the almighty profitable softwood, pretending it is not that poisonous, it is not drifting onto neighbouring properties and seeping into wells, everything is done according to regulations... like the wind developer.. they are just abiding by the new setback bylaws,don't blame them for the noise. Communities get angry and organized and call on governments to stop.. stop the spraying.. stop the irresponsible siting... and eventually they listen, eventually laws change, citizens are better protected, and John McManus slides up to his keyboard to fire off another missive blaming this blog and that sentiment for doing what exactly? The emperor has no clothes, John. It is really that simple.
The low frequency infrasonic sound output of many turbines is greater than of one.
These setbacks fail to take this into account.
Infrasonic sound (and electromagnetic fields) have both been implicated as being hazardous to the health of life.
A moratorium is needed so these huge collections of the worlds largest aren't unleashed on the rural population without due respect to their health and well being.
Why couldn't many smaller turbines be located thruout the countryside on rural properties.
An example of the smaller types now being developed with grid connection is here
http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/partner/viewproduct?id=22133
In time this type of approach will become more viable as the price of oil is only going up and the faster the price of electricity goes up the sooner we will learn to do without!
You would need almost 1000 of the Skystream 3.7's to account for 1 of the proposed machines at Pugwash. That would look a lot worse than 27 of the larger mommas. Small hybrid generation sure sounds great for most idealists, but the reality is that larger generation is needed. I guess if you want though you could install 27,000 Skystream 3.7's to make up for the Pugwash Wind Farm if it is not installed. I'm sure the look of all those machines will look magestic!
With regards to the anonymous just after John's last posting they must have really had a good cry when they woke up in the morning and read the paper on the 15th. You should get used to that feeling when the RFP winners are announced!
If people taught their children to use less electricity then they wouldn't need as many spread out over the countryside!
It is a sad day when people jeer at those trying to save them from harm, just as they likely jeered about asbesotos, tobacco, formadehyde, lead and so on. Doesn't make those who care stupid, quite the opposite.
Wow! You have gone and done it again. Now you have gone from labelling wind farm developers as money grubbing resource barons to the wind farm itself being as harmful as tobacco smoke that will cause asbestosis, lead poisoning and whatever you would get from formaldehyde.
And you actually wonder why people think the movement against this wind farm is so stupid. Hmmmm!
Actually, we don't wonder why people think our movement is stupid. Actually, people don't think our movement is stupid. And YOU know we're not stupid. That's why you're monitoring this blog like scared rabbits for AWP.
By the way Nuttby Mtn. sounds like a great place for a wind farm. Hmmmm.
signed Capt. Pugwash
Here's a link to a forum discussing the effect of the
Mars Hill Windfarm on the local residents.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/maine/50917-wind-turbine-noise-problem-mars-hill-6.html
Can someone find the link to the Boston Globe article that reported how the residents of Mars Hill Maine said they were duped by the wind developer and really regret allowing the wind plant built because of the noise and depreciated property values.
Nobody here is working for AWPC or even remotley scared there Capt. Moron. My intent is to watch the effect of this movement on the rest of wind farm and renewable energy community as a whole in this province. You must be one of those guys that sits around gossiping at the coffee shop in Pugwash commenting on how funny all the americans sound. The rest of the world sees you as a backwater, which you shall forever remain with or without this wind farm!
Why is AWPC submitting two applications to NS Power, Pugwash and Nutby, when the utility is only adding 130 megawatts of renewable energy by 2009? Could they be hedging their bets that in all likelihood, Pugwash is the wrong location? Are they finally listening to all the petitioners who said "put these noisy turbines up in the Cobequids"? I am so glad I live in this hillbilly backwater village where it is still quiet enough to hear the inbreds and the Americans chatting over their coffees. Viva la resistance!
First and foremost AWPC has stated publicly, which you would have heard had your ears been cleaned out, that they have always had more than one site. I am sure you anti wind folks are on the hunt for a land owner with some shack up on Nutby Mountain that can stone wall this project now as well.
But instead of doing something as mundane as that why don't you try something of real magnitude. Why don't you collect the data on the total amount of wind farms that currently exist in the world and correlate the amount of people that have said that they have been negatively impacted by the machines. If you were to actually do something like this, which would be considered real research as opposed to constantly searching out negative information as you all have in the past, you would see that the problems being mentioned are largely a North American problem where a very litigious society currently exists and there are problems where the developers have not gone through the means to get info out as AWPC has. Yes I know that some European nations are having NIMBY issues, but if you look at the grand scheme of things you will see that the movement against wind farms is miniscule compared to the amount of generation currently on grids all around the world. You know I would be willing to bet that if the Pugwash wind farm gets built that over 98% of the people that have signed your petition will rescind their views a year after the machines are up. You know why, because they will not be impacted by these machines like you proclaimed. So I think it is time to get real and perhaps you stop lying to your own community about what could REALLY happen here. Pugwash should be open for business, this community will not be destroyed by this wind farm, the noise will not be sending people running mad in the streets, Lisa Betts is not your saviour, and NO I am not a scared rabbit that works for AWPC!
AWPC stated publically that they wanted to be good corporate citizens and if the people of Pugwash area said they did not want this wind plant built here, it would not get built here. What has AWPC done with the strong opposition presented by hired lawyers, petitions and face to face citizen meetings? Gone ahead and submitted Pugwash with Nutby to the Utility company. Doe AWPC have a credibility problem? You betcha. Is Pugwash open for that kind of business, NO!
....."but if you look at the grand scheme of things you will see that the movement against wind farms is miniscule compared to the amount of generation currently on grids all around the world.".......
It could be that many of these are sited in locations away from the general population.
It could be that many of these are smaller collections with smaller sized units.
It won't be known how many people will be affected near this proposal until its built but it has been shown that some will be affected.
Low frequency infrasonic sound created by these travels great distance unattenuated and has health related issues for those in a range which can vary daily/hourly with the atmospheric weather conditions.
..."anything that bugs you constantly will drive you mad"..
From what I've been seeing the people who are strongly in favour of windfarms in a residential area are the ones who are not going to be effected by it. They haven't taken the time to do the research into how this has effected people in other places where this has happened. They just see big graceful "windmills" slowly & silently turning in the distance generating loads of free power not having a clue about the reality of it all.
I wonder how many of the pro Pugwash wind farm people who post on this blog actually live in close proximity to it. My guess is not many. It would be interesting to see someone start a pro- Pugwash windfarm petition to see how many sign up.
I wonder if anyone of you have actually been to Denmark or Germany and have seen some of the wind farms there that are a lot closer to a greater number of homes than the Pugwash wind farm would ever be. Why is it that they have lived close to machines whose blades grace the ground a lot closer than the ones that AWPC is proposing and are producing just as much energy per turbine as is being proposed here, and have not complained as much you folk. What is it about the Europeans that separates them from the anti-wind crowd on this blog? I'm sure each of you will have some profound answer to this, but in reality the answer is that in Europe they actually won't cave into a bunch of crap about infrasound and how a hum will make you go mad. We live in a society of wimps and you are perhaps the weakest, because you think a damn blade turning is going to turn your world upside down. Well you know what your world is already updise down and I am not this damn rabbit scrared in the woods that you keep talking about. I am realist that looks at both sides and sees that most of the crap that you folks keep posting here is just that crap. You keep on posting links from the inetrnet, which in and of itself is a festering encyclopedia for the misinformed. I actually think that you have only been able to quote 5 or so wind farms where there has been opposition after the construction, although I might be wrong, the reality is that there are more people living in harmony with wind farms then there is not. And you know what else there should be a pro petition put together for the whole damn province and in fact make it a referendum. Because your little tract of land that you are fighting for does not just belong to you, it belongs to all Nova Scotians and each of us should have a say on what will be done with it, since you have already decided that the landowners that actually own this land can't have there say I say you can't have your say about all of your lands. It's All Nova Scotia to me!
Maybe you'd be happier in Denmark.....or Germany...O irate one.
In reference to 2 post back:
I'll sign it first, I work around these units everyday almost inside and out. I enjoy the job and they don't bother me at all. It takes strong consentration to do my line of work. Turbines don't bother me or drive me mad.
...Why don't the persons above who think these are great to work around and that the hum won't make you go mad show us all your not wimps and go down to the pubnico site and rent the vacant house there for a year and prove that its all a bunch of crap about the effects of ultrasound on your health.
Pubnico Point is a moot point for you Anti Pugwash wind farm folk. You know why, because the current setback is much further than the distance between pubnico point wind farm and Mr. D'Entremonts house. Although his situation is unfortunate it is not the same, because the Turbines as mentioned above will be much farther away. If Dan has a case than he should make it and stop whining, why hasn't any action been taken in the courts?
In reference 2 the posting 2 above this; Lets see you climb to the top of these or work around 600volts 2 feet away, lets see who the wimp is, like I said it takes more consentration to work around this than sleeping. I like to know I willbe coming home. So getting back, they are no problem working around which does take alot of consentration. The noice or vibrations and low hums don't effect me, why would it to someone 1/2km away. Get real and come down to earth, some people got nothing better to do but type on a computer board, sip on these coffee and smoke.
What a BANANA!!!!
lisa said they support wind farms insofar as they are in unpopulated areas. i was at the scottish pines very recently...this does not seem like a highly populated area to me! you guys have huge properties...doesn't the guy who owns the land on which they want to put up the windmills have the right to do what he wants with his own land?
I really don't think you are going to get sick, lisa et. al. If you do, sue them afterwards, get some money and move far away from the project!
I don't think any land owner ( myself or anyone else) has the right to do whatever he wants with his land when what he does has a profound effect on his neighbors, preventing them from peacfully enjoying their own property. If you live in a city and your dog barks constantly disturbing your neighbors are they just supposed to put up with it because it's on your land? I don't think so.
So Judy, How close do you live from the nearest turbine?
Re. above post. Should have read :
How close do you live from the nearest PROPOSED turbine?
actually if you live in a city and a dog is barking constantly there is nothing you can do, unless of course in Halifax if it barks for a constant 45 minutes than you can call the cops, but if it is not barking when the cops show tuff titty!
This actually sounds like what it would be like with these machines. In your mind the machine might be bugging you, so then you call the authorities and they show up and take measurments and say everything is fine and leave. They leave and it starts up again, in your mind, you call them again they show up and the same result as last. It is all in your mind they will say and never answer your calls again.
I got news for you...the wind industry is not made up of nice environmentalists with green halos and virtuous morals towards people, wildlife and the planet earth. They ARE money grubbing resource barons. Believe me, I know from experience. This is ALL about MONEY. Wake up and smell the coffee.
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